I stumbled across this today. I feel like this guy could have taken the words right out of my mouth: http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Wish-I-Was-Never-Born/393907.
This is the kind of thing I wish people would take into account before engaging in the act of reproduction. Of course, selfish ass breeders don’t give a shit.
Procreation is the supreme act of evil.
When it comes to winning the antinatalism debate (which, if you look at any of them, the antinatalist always wins the debate), I’ve come up with a new strategy to shut down pretty much ever pronatalist argument and use that to further imply why antinatalism is true.
Situational antinatalism is simple and profound enough that pretty much everyone agrees with it. The only ones who I have found reject it are individuals who are suffering from the most severe forms of the most common mental illness on the planet (namely religion). Basically, almost everyone I’ve ever encountered can agree that there are certain life forms that would have been better off being spared existence. Those with extreme mental and/or physical disabilities, animals raised solely for meat or other animal byproducts, among others qualify as such. There’s effectively no argument that these individuals would have been better off being spared existence. I’ve not personally met anyone who will disagree with these (though, most of them in their hypocritical ways continue to consume meat and/or animal byproducts, go figure).
That said, it is very easy to see how situational antinatalism implies general antinatalism. Given the level of uncertainty about what kind of existence awaits a potential individual, it is always best not to procreate. Nobody knows if a new, pre-sentient individual will be one of the many individuals cursed with severe mental/physical handicap. Since it is pretty much universally agreed upon that such individuals would be better off never existing, and given the fact that there is a statistically significant chance that any new individual will be afflicted with such a malady, we see that the risk heavily outweighs any potential benefit.
In short, the element of uncertainty and risk is the nail in the coffin for the pronatalist argument. Note I did not even invoke the Benatarian asymmetry here. While an elegant and watertight argument in favor of antinatalism, it’s practically impossible to convince anyone of the truth value of it. That said, when I argue for antinatalism from this argument, very rarely does the other person walk away not agreeing with me. I’ve even managed to convince my own mother of it, who has since apologized to me for bringing me into existence. No joke. Go figure, one’s own offspring turning his own mother to antinatalism. I never thought I’d see the day.
If only we could all move to Belgium. Suicide is a civil right, period, end of story. As none of us were given any choice as to whether or not to come into this world (and the fact that it would have been better never to have been born), we all have the right to leave if we so choose. I’m glad to see a government somewhere out there honoring this right.
Well, it’s been about six weeks now since my sister had her sprog. Now halfway thru her maternity leave, I think reality has finally set in for her that this ain’t as glamorous as she thought it was going to be. In fact, she downright hates her life at this point.
She came over to try to confide in me but I was having none of it. Seeing as how she put herself in this situation, I don’t feel like I should have one iota of sympathy toward her. She could have had an abortion, been done with it, and all parties win (including her kid who would never have been subject to the unfortunate state of existence). Alas, she didn’t, and as far as I’m concerned she has to live with the consequences of her poor decision.
Anyway, she wanted me to watch her kid for a couple of hours while she went out and did something. My mother is working so obviously she can’t watch him while at work, so she came to me. I told her absolutely not and that I have plans of my own and as such that overrides any responsibility I have for that kid (namely none at all). She then threw a tantrum and was all “well you don’t have kids and I’m sick and tired of being cooped up” waah waah waah. I just told her straight up she should have thought of that before she decided to go through with this. She kept on keeping on and I finally had enough and said, “If you hate it so bad just sign over your rights and be done with it!”
As she and the father are not married, it would be pretty easy for her to sign over her rights and absolve herself from financial or any other responsibility. Of course, that would mean the end of her relationship with the father, but at least she’d be free to be herself again (and hopefully she would consider getting essure or a tubal – I know a few doctors and I could probably pull their strings and work them over and get them to agree to do it for her). Quite frankly if she keeps on keeping on like this she’s going to wind up being a redux of a certain Florida mother whose name I will not mention because it disgusts me to even think of her.**
At any rate, she can do as she pleases, but I still refuse to be sympathetic to her cause. She made her bed, she has to lie in it. Period.
**Whereas existence is harmful for all those who exist, and it would have been better never to have existed, once in existence humans and other animals tend to have an interest in continuing to exist, and that right should not be stripped from them. Of course, should a being wish to end his/her own existence, neither should that right be stripped of him/her.
No, I’m not going to call you and wish you a happy Mother’s Day. I’m not going to send you flowers, chocolates or take you to dinner. I’m not doing any of that for you. Why should I do anything nice for the very person who forced me into the unfortunate state of existence without my prior consent? Why should I celebrate the person that is half responsible for all the pain and suffering I’ve had to endure up to this point (for had I never been born I’d have never had to endure any pain or suffering)?
No, I’m not grateful for you or my own existence. I truly am sorry you didn’t feel the same way about procreation as I do. I’ve been part of this hellhole for nearly three decades now, and that’s been three decades too long.
Fuck you, mom.
Procreation can only be described as the supreme act of evil. Bringing so much as one new sentient being into existence is an action exponentially more evil than the actions of all the serial killers, mass murderers, serial rapists, etc. combined, and that’s if you bring a healthy individual without any genetic or congenital health defects into the world.
However, when you bring a new individual into the world who you KNOW will be permanently disfigured, that takes that evil to a whole new level. Case in point this worthless fuck who forced existence upon a new individual with the EXACT SAME facial deformity as him into the world to have to endure probably worse suffering than him (because females take more offense to those kinds of things than males). Read more about this sick fucker here.
What’s even WORSE is most people are praising his decision. Like WTF? People are so fucking delusional it makes me fucking sick to my stomach. NO, this was NOT a good thing and she will NOT have a (comparatively) good life.
Quit justifying the unjustifiable. This person’s actions were downright evil at BEST. No rational person could ever excuse such a thing, and if you excuse such things you are part of the fucking problem yourself.
So I just got done arguing with a delusional Pollyanna friend of mine who claims life is worth living because of all the good things in life. Sure, that’s fine and good, but when you look at the most pleasurable things in life, you quickly find out they’re all the worst for your health!
Let’s take a look at some of the “best” things in life. Smoking, drinking, high fat/sugar foods, among others. These are probably some of the most universally pleasurable things in this world. I’ve yet to meet the person who will turn down rich, flavorful food (which rich and flavorful usually translates to high calorie/fat/sugar). Likewise, alcohol is the most widely used and abused drug in the world, but damn it tastes so fucking good (and the euphoric feeling from its use is also nice). Although I personally finds cigarettes to be just downright gross, cigars are a totally different animal – they taste and smell great and there’s nothing like chillaxing on a calm evening with a cigar and a glass of Scotch – again, alcohol comes up. Interject in other risky behaviors that adrenaline junkies thrive on and I think the case is pretty well cut and dry.
So what does this all boil down to? Well, given that the most pleasurable things in life are the worst for our health, I think that just makes the case for antinatalism from a practical perspective. If we were really all about survival and living longer, these dangerous activities would bring us pain instead of pleasure. Alas, they simply do not. In fact, living a “healthy” lifestyle is one of the most emotionally painful experiences imaginable!
Given this information, it’s clear that we weren’t meant to live that long, if we were even meant to live at all. Since all the most pleasurable things in life will no doubt kill us eventually, it’s easy to conclude that it is in fact better never to have been born. If it wasn’t, they wouldn’t be so fucking awesome.
Yesterday, my sister started having contractions. We all know what that means. My little mudblood (to borrow some Harry Potter terminology – I really don’t want to use the term I really think when I think of when I think of my sister procreating with a black man) nephew is on the way and will probably be here within the next couple of days.
Yeah, welcome to this shitty place called the world to have to endure this shitty thing called life. I’m sorry your parents had to be so selfish as to bring you into existence. Ultimately, there’s nothing really worth living for and you will find that out soon enough if I have anything to say about it. If I am still alive by the time you are old enough to understand how the world really works, I will tell you all about it so that you do not repeat the same mistake your parents made.
“Therefore, do not reproduce. Do not repeat the same crimes committed against you. Do not give back the same, evil repaid with evil, as imposing life is the ultimate crime. Do not disturb the unborn. Let them be in the peace of nothingness.” – Fernando Vallejo; address to the youth of Colombia.
EDIT: My nephew was delivered via caesarian section at around 10 PM Thursday, April 16th after natural labor just would not go. Bleh.
It’s bad enough to have children. I’ve discussed that at length here so I won’t go any further into that. What’s even worse is having children and giving them the most stupid fucking names ever.
In this example I’m using my stupid kid sister. Her fiance is black (which is bad enough – I openly admit I’m 100% opposed to interracial relationships/marriages, though I don’t think it should be against the law) and they decided they wanted a black name for their kid. I don’t know what it is about black people but they’re always coming up with the craziest fucking names. What’s wrong with normal names, again?
Anyway, they eventually settled on a Latin name that’s apparently been bastardized by the black community to an incorrect pronunciation. They’ve chosen the name “Kyrie” which, with a little knowledge of Latin (which I have quite a bit having done college choir and such back in the day), will tell you the proper pronunciation is “kih-ree-ay” (and if you don’t believe me, look up the song Kyrie by Mr. Mister). Naturally this is a feminine sounding name and would be perfectly fitting for a female. But oh no, they just had to bastardize it and change it to a male name with a totally wrong pronunciation – “kie-ree.” Apparently there’s a pro basketball player with the same spelling and pronunciation even though it’s totally wrong.
After having proved my point my sister was pissed off but hey, that’s how it goes. Which brings me to my point: why use ridiculous names when they will only cause grief later on? People will no doubt constantly mispronounce their names leading to an immense amount of frustration. Stick to names everyone knows and save them a lot of grief later.
Well, whatever. Rant over.
It seems that most monotheistic religions (and interestingly enough, even most atheists I’ve met) deem suicide as an evil action. Alas, any claim deeming suicide immoral is defective.
Monotheistic religions claim that it’s an offense to god as we are the god’s creation and therefore have no right to destroy ourselves as it would be destroying god’s creation. Well, that’s OK if you’re working under the assumption that a god even exists and have sufficient evidence that god exists, but it’s still not immoral to remove something which is a harm to someone. As (1) our lives are a harm to us and (2) it would have been better never to have existed, it thus follows that if god created creation he did an evil action. Therefore god, if god exists, is evil. As such, no entity that is inherently evil has any right dictating anything about general morality.
In terms of the “new” atheism, they have all sorts of unfounded claims. They reject god or a driving uniting force but somehow make up some bullshit claim that there’s a purpose for our existence and that we should not terminate our lives because of it. Truth be told they have no more evidence for their claims of a transcendental purpose than theists have for the existence of god. As such, this claim can be dismissed as nonsense right along with the god theory.
Both atheists and theists argue that committing suicide is selfish because of the devastation left behind. I would counter this argument by saying the devastation over someone’s death is the selfishness of the grieving and is entirely their problem. They grieve because they wanted said deceased person (who died of suicide or other means, it matters not) to remain alive to please them. Let’s be honest, we never grieve a person actually dying. We grieve because they will no longer be there for us.
Lastly, psychologists will claim that suicide is a result of mental illness. Well, even if it was that’s not even relevant, but the real disturbing thing about this is what the general consensus is about mental illness, namely that we should forfeit our bodily autonomy upon being diagnosed with one of the plethora of mental illnesses people have made up out of thin air without any evidence backing them up whatsoever. That’s a slippery slope I don’t think anyone wants to go down, because what’s next? Left handers losing their bodily autonomy? I don’t even want to think about the potential implications.
Now that we’ve effectively destroyed every anti-suicide argument, we see that suicide is not an immoral action. This is not to claim that suicide is moral. Such action has a morally neutral value (i.e. it is neither moral nor immoral to commit suicide). However, suicide must be recognized as a right. As none of us were given any choice in whether or not to come into this world (rather, we were all selfishly forced into it by our parents), we should at least have the free choice to leave if we deem it the appropriate course of action for ourselves.
Which brings me to the closing point: if we want to talk about true immorality and selfishness, let’s talk about the breeder scumbags that force new people into existence and the ones who try to force people to remain alive against their wills. That’s true selfishness and immorality. Nobody has a kid for their kid’s benefit; they have them for their own. Likewise, nobody keeps someone alive against his/her will for that person’s benefit. They do so because they don’t want to have to say goodbye. It’s a fucked up world we live in, for sure.